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okay. one more try. made a couple of errors, had to delete and start over.

i'm curious as to people's NNR tendencies since these issues seem to come up over and over again. no judgement calls being made... just curious.

Poll #390136 NNR score reporting ethics

With a non-10 foot song, if i get a non-perfect score of 5/1/0/1, i will post my score on NNR as:

7
11(19.3%)
17
39(68.4%)
other
7(12.3%)

With a non-10 foot song, if i get a non-perfect score of 12g and a pad miss, i will post my score on NNR as:

12
21(36.2%)
13
18(31.0%)
22
16(27.6%)
other
3(5.2%)

With a 10-foot song such as Maxx Unlimited, if i get a non-perfect score of 70/2/0/6, i will post my scvore on NNR as:

78 (which is a AA)
2(3.4%)
134 (which is an A)
48(82.8%)
102 (which is a border A, esp. if my combo breaks were pad errors)
5(8.6%)
other
3(5.2%)

If I get an N.G. on a song, i will:

report it as an OK if it's due to faulty pad conditions.
28(49.1%)
report it as an OK so long as it doesn't give me enough DP to change my grade or make it into an SDG.
2(3.5%)
report it as an OK if the freeze arrow is not critical to the chart (Silent Hill 3rd, Exotic Ethnic double)
5(8.8%)
report it as an OK in a circumstance not described here
1(1.8%)
report it as an OK in any circumstance whatsoever
2(3.5%)
report it as an NG
19(33.3%)

As a general rule, if i get a pad error, i'll treat it as if it were:

a great
32(57.1%)
a good
0(0.0%)
the actual value of the error (i.e. no adjustment)
24(42.9%)

My NNR Score on Sync Oni uses:

shuffle
13(23.2%)
no turn mods
43(76.8%)

My NNR score on D2R is reflective of my playing it on:

Extreme
45(80.4%)
Max2
11(19.6%)

I have scores submitted for songs that are reflective of my execution of that song during an oni course, or i would have no issues doing so.

True
34(61.8%)
False
21(38.2%)

If i forget whether i got 13g or 17g on a song because i forgot to write it down:

i'll most likely report 13g
7(12.3%)
i'll most likely report 17g
13(22.8%)
i won't report anything until i play it again and know for sure.
37(64.9%)

How do you feel about the use of NNR for home mixes or stepmania?



--

for any answers that were "other", comments as to what that "other" would be are appreciated.

Comments

( read spoken (22) — speak )
lifeofmendel
Nov. 23rd, 2004 11:14 am (UTC)
in retrospect, the "if i get an NG" question is somewhat ambiguous, and the "D2R" question should have also included an "other". sorry. that's what 3am will get you.
ex_scorppoe
Nov. 23rd, 2004 11:20 am (UTC)
This is all way over my head.
lifeofmendel
Nov. 23rd, 2004 11:24 am (UTC)
*laughs* you're not a ddr player, so that's okay.

look for an email in a second.
kkatmaxx
Nov. 23rd, 2004 03:06 pm (UTC)
bleah. pad misses :( our machines here in spokane continue to get steadily worse, and as such, my scores continue to suffer...

come over here and fix it! :P

... we might be getting a 7-key BM here at bumpers spokane. don't know when, but it's in the works :D
sleeplessone
Nov. 23rd, 2004 10:29 pm (UTC)
That would not be BM then but BM IIDX. Your arcade is getting a $8000+ game? WHERE? Spokane? WTF ;_;
kkatmaxx
Nov. 24th, 2004 10:30 am (UTC)
like I said, they're working on it. I've been working with the management on which machines would be the most demanded in spokane, and we came up with that as one of the top bemani-wise (I would like to see GF and DM instead, but I'm in the minority). I don't know whether a BM 5-key would get played much here, but I also don't know if spending 5 times as much on a IIDX would get it played 5x as much either..............

..... I also didn't realize until only a few months ago just how much goes into planning an arcade setup, and how much risk is involved. glad I'm not them.
jjkjustin
Nov. 24th, 2004 01:45 am (UTC)
For the NG question - I count all NGs as Greats.

Nice poll idea btw.
dyaus7
Nov. 24th, 2004 09:32 am (UTC)
YOU DAMN CALIFORNIAN.

;)
kkatmaxx
Nov. 24th, 2004 10:31 am (UTC)
that makes me cry. :"(
drj36
Nov. 24th, 2004 01:18 pm (UTC)
I count all non-greats as perfects. I am confident that if I can get 1 great and any amount of goods, boos, or misses, I can get 1 great full combo on that song. And since the non-combo steps are usually arguable (probably not my fault) I am certainly not going to count them as greats. The only time I count a non-great as a great is when I get 0 greats and 1 good, or 1 boo, or 1 miss.
thermokat
Nov. 24th, 2004 04:33 pm (UTC)
I would take your poll, but I don't do NNR. I do have a method for keeping track of scores, but since I am a primarily Standard player, I keep it to myself. ;-) Let me know if you still want me to enter my answers.
crackoon
Nov. 25th, 2004 11:23 am (UTC)
I'm going to answer each question here, since some answers warrant choices not given:

With a non-10 foot song, if i get a non-perfect score of 5/1/0/1, i will post my score on NNR as:

7

With a non-10 foot song, if i get a non-perfect score of 12g and a pad miss, i will post my score on NNR as:

12

With a 10-foot song such as Maxx Unlimited, if i get a non-perfect score of 70/2/0/6, i will post my scvore on NNR as:

134

If I get an N.G. on a song, i will:

report it as an OK if it's due to faulty pad conditions. (UNLESS IT MAKES IT A AAA, then one great (but an OK))

As a general rule, if i get a pad error, i'll treat it as if it were:

A perfect unless it is zero greats + error, in which case it will be one, no matter how many pad misses/etc

My NNR Score on Sync Oni uses:

AAA ON LEFT, BITCHES

My NNR score on D2R is reflective of my playing it on:

Extreme

I have scores submitted for songs that are reflective of my execution of that song during an oni course, or i would have no issues doing so.

true, but only the former. I have not said I have gotten x greats unless I have actually done so

If i forget whether i got 13g or 17g on a song because i forgot to write it down:

i won't report anything until i play it again and know for sure.

How do you feel about the use of NNR for home mixes or stepmania?

I think they deserve to die
crackoon
Nov. 25th, 2004 11:30 am (UTC)
Oh, I want to add that "PAD" should be emphasized in pad errors. If it was clearly my fault that I got 2 goods and a miss on a song, I will report them as an additional 14 greats.
drj36
Nov. 27th, 2004 01:08 pm (UTC)
Oh, and just an explanation as to why using NNR for SM or home mixes is stupid: Because I have AAAed everything on home version, and if I can do it, a lot of people can. So then you go to look at who has AAAed LOM and you get 15 fake accounts, 21 home version accounts, and then maybe 4-5 real people that did it.
abbajen
Nov. 27th, 2004 04:39 pm (UTC)
If I could play on a soft pad on a machine, I could get the same score on SM as I do in the arcade. I can't play as well on any metal pad. They hurt my feet too badly.

So therefore, I don't think there's a problem with it. Maybe your home difficulty is set really low or your arcade difficulty is set really high.
lifeofmendel
Nov. 27th, 2004 07:21 pm (UTC)
the "timing windows" for getting perfects or greats on any home version of DDR and stepmania are *drastically* different than that in the arcade. that's the big objection that people have to using home scores for the purposes of NNR because it's generally easier to AAA at home... plus, there's no way to easily verify what difficulty setting is being used at "home", whereas there is no way to set difficulty in the arcade version that actually affects the timing window.

timing windows on every arcade version of Extreme down to 5th mix (i think?) are all the same. thus it's easier to judge and compare people's achievements relative to that Universal Standard.

additionally, it's difficult to verify if someone AAAs a difficult song on the home version whether or not they actually did it using the feet vs. a PS2 controller.

because of those sorts of issues, home scores is strongly discouraged by the majority of the NNR populace, even if the user clearly states that they're using home scores in their profile. most people agree that a separate ranking site needs to be made for home users in the same way that vjarmy is devoted to home IIDX players as opposed to that japanese website for arcade scores only.

me, home score users don't bother me all that much, but i only vaguely use NNR as a competitive and comparitive tool. People who put forth so much effort into getting where they are on the NNR rankings can be, in my opinion, justly irate at those who post fake scores or home scores to such a high degree that it places the home scorers above them in rankings.

but then again, there's also the issue that *i* have with regarding pad errors or echo errors being "reinterpreted" by the NNR populace to be a great or a perfect, or other similar issues addressed in the poll. it's all subject to inidivudal intepretation until the NNR admins make a decision to enforce rules and a standard for score reporting.
abbajen
Nov. 27th, 2004 08:23 pm (UTC)
See though, the reason I use NNR is to keep track of my scores for myself. I will never be able to find all the millions of paper scraps and notebooks I wrote the scores into.

You can change the timing window at the arcade, I believe. Or else, dirty pads play a part. Something does, cause some arcades give me perfects for perfects, others give greats.

I think it is kind of silly to be ridiculously competitive over a game between yourself and people you don't know. And besides, even if you're an arcade players - you can still lie.

That is why NNR is not a good tool for serious competitive comparison.
abbajen
Nov. 27th, 2004 04:38 pm (UTC)
Well, it wouldn't let me fill it out, but here's what I do:

I don't care if it is a me miss or a pad miss. A miss is a miss. I put the score in that I recieve.

Also, I almost never play at the arcade cause I don't have much chance to and it costs too much money. So I only post home scores.

If I forget what I got, I do not put it in. However, since I play at home, I always write it down if it's a new/better score.
lifeofmendel
Nov. 27th, 2004 07:24 pm (UTC)
and by the way...

hi there. :) nice to meet you. you live in the state i grew up in, though i consider pittsburgh to be more in Ohio than Pennsylvania. ;) i grew up in king of prussia.
abbajen
Nov. 27th, 2004 08:24 pm (UTC)
LOL... I am totally not Ohio! :) King of Prussia is way over by Philly, right?
lifeofmendel
Nov. 27th, 2004 10:19 pm (UTC)
indeed. that's where i spent most of my life before moving out here (oregon). i also did my undergrad at West Chester.

and sorry... but pittsburgh is virtually ohio as far as i'm concerned. that's where people start calling it "pop" as opposed to "soda." i'd put the end of PA right around Pittsburgh, maybe a hybrid between Pittsburgh and Penn State. :)
_bbq_
Nov. 27th, 2004 09:30 pm (UTC)
my other answers are for #1: if the errors are because of the pads i will count them as perfects, if not, then they will be counted as 17.

this was a good survey ^_^
( read spoken (22) — speak )

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